HAILI COURT – Proposed Residential-Commercial Mixed Use Development
To bring more livability to Downtown Hilo, I would like to construct a 4-story 38-unit affordable residential and 4,900 SF ground level retail development on TMK; 2-8-17:009, the corner of Keawe and Haili Street. One to three bedroom units will vary in size from 578 sq. ft. to 1150 sq. ft. There will be a vegetable garden court for the residents. This is the current site of the 76 Service Station.
This property is located in the Downtown Hilo Commercial (CDH) District and not located in the Special Management Area. A mixed use residential-commercial development is a permitted use in Downtown Hilo. According to the current Zoning Code, I am only allowed to construct nineteen (19) residential units. An amendment to the Zoning Code by the County Council would be required to double the allowable density in Downtown from 1,000 sq. ft. land area/unit to 500 sq. ft. land area/unit. This would allow me to design more units that are affordable and smaller which would increase livability in Downtown; and make new development on this property financially feasible.
What would you like to see in the commercial spaces on the ground level?
Any other comments?
EDH 2025 Primary Focus Area; Creating Economic Vitality
Secondary Focus Area: Strengthening and Sustaining Our Community
December 30, 2011 (last changed February 15, 2012)
Top Comments
A basically good idea. Parking and traffic flow need to be addressed. Doubling the density may be too much. Need to see more detailed plans.
This looks like a good idea for downtown; bringing back living space through residency will help revitalize the area. An upscale new residential/commercial development will hopefully encourage more of the same and some of the run-down spots might be encouraged to brighten-up. Additionally, I imagine with more folks living downtown, there will be more voices advocating for further improvements to the district.
I am wary, however, of doubling the density as you propose for this project. Your proposal does not, for instance, describe what provisions you will make to accommodate parking for your residents or those wishing to shop at your retail outlets. Adding more traffic to downtown is problematic. While I would hope folks living in your development would walk or bike to local businesses, it is unreasonable to think they would not also have cars, trucks, whatever, too.
Could we hear more about your density proposal and parking provisions? Mahalo!
Look at Hilo Plaza is that working
Why do we need another bldg that doesnt work do to lack of parking and who would want a new bldg next to the Cunningham bldg web need to clean up what we have already then sprouse the exzisting up and then build up the rest of our beautiful downtown
This is Awesome! I think this is just what Hilo Downtown needs. Having something like this would spur the rest of the area into action. If there are people living there businesses will follow. doubling the density in your space is a great idea! Lets build up not out and preserve our beautiful land.
Lets use an example. You live across a county park. 100 people who live outside the neighborhood come to the park everday for different reasons. They have no interest in ever living in the area, they just want to use the park, but because your house is not beautiful enough for their standard they are going to use what influence they have and through legislation,force you to conform to what they want to see when they use the park. Under what it sounds like you are saying, these 100 people, if they outnumber all who live in the area, that they should have the say on what the houses should look like because they use the park everyday. Does this sound right?
The discussion around density, height, and design has been a very informative and valuable conversation that probably deserves a separate meeting. To help with refocusing… let’s look at the drawings and description for this particular entry and proposal for ’Haili Court – a proposed residential-commercial mixed use development.’ Could I suggest we provide Vincent with some feedback on two questions:
What do you like about the proposed development?
What would you like to see changed in the drawings?
We should understand that the final decision is for Vincent Tai to make as landowner and developer, as it also needs to make economic sense. However, this is our opportunity to provide him with input on what we want this development to look like in Downtown.
For starters… I like that he has included canopies over the sidewalk. Canopies are not a required feature. Thank you Vincent!
There’s a market for people who want to live in the building, and there’s a market for the people who live, work and play in the downtown. The building needs to consider both markets… or populations, or groups of people, or whichever terms are most appropriate. More people care about the downtown ‘market’ than the building ‘market’, including all the businesses as a whole. If downtown loses its character, downtown also loses its customers. GY, this conversation doesn’t have to be so focused on what you disagree on with everybody.
You have stated that you feel the lowering of the height and design elements should be included with any changes in zoning and I am assuming that is the only way you would support a project like this moving forward.
Maybe you can help me in understanding what other pros and cons you have for including these other components because what might be blocking a view for you may be looked at as creating a view for others. Not to say I would like 120 ft buildings in downtown Hilo but I also don’t feel the need to control what Hilo should look like. I believe the market can work just fine at that. When people start trying to control what is going to be built and these policies of control have been here for awhile, what happens and the proof is what exists today is that nothing ends up being built.
I also would love to hear more of this idea that we don’t want Hilo to be urbanized. I thought part of this movement of smart growth was to get away from sprawl and all the negatives associated with it.
This website is great for telling us what people want but the problem I see is that their is no cohesive plan to really revitalize downtown Hilo. What do we have so far, growing food, a trails plan and closing Mamo street. Great ideas , makes the area nicer and adds recreational actitivites, but these aren’t thinks that will sustain a revitalization. This will ultimately come from people putting money back into their properties. This is just one project , but if successful would be so helpful in showing us what is possible.
GY: I was trying to express a general fear that I share with others who are maybe not so willing to express it: with enough money, anything can happen, even a 12 story building in Downtown Hilo.
I feel that this fear has grown because of the decades of over-development based on a top-down planning approach here in Hawaii. I understand that in the current situation, it doesn’t make financial sense to build this high, and that so far no one has initiated such a development, I’ve been hearing that for years and I’m not trying to stir up unreasonable fears, I just want to make the point that it could happen, even if it hasn’t so far. Why not fix it now?
It isn’t that I fear change – I’m afraid that if we don’t address this height limit and other design elements that are not currently mandated, the right (or wrong) developer with enough money could come in and build Bayshore Towers in Downtown Hilo, whether we like it or not.
This is exactly why EnVision Downtown Hilo 2025 and this website is so refreshing and important – bottom-up planning with the community directly involved.
@ Neil T: I would agree, if we are talking about a public domain with public contributions then yes what the general public wants should be taken into consideration. We are not talking about a public domain we are talking about private property. Which brings up an important point, the owner has to put in all the money and take all the risk. Why would he want to build something that he doesn’t believe is beautiful enough for people to want to live in. If people don’t find it beautiful then no one buys into the project and no more projects like this get built. Isn’t this how a market regulates.
I don’t quite follow your definition of the market . By your definition the market for this project are people who spend the most time in downtown. Even though they aren’t interested in a condo, or interested in living in this kind of setting they are still part of the market as long as they spend a lot of time in the area. Could we get a reference where this definition comes from to further the understanding of the discussion.
@Alice: I would be very interested in hearing of which parcels you fear a development of 120 ft would be possible. Do you have numbers to back this up because you are creating fear where there doen’t need to be. 120 ft has been possible for all this time and no one has built. It is because the numbers don’t make sense, it is not even close. You also have to consider that parking is going to be a limiting factor and available utilities are going to be a limiting factor.
Several people have brought up the density increase as an issue and/or are asking for more clarification on what that increase would mean. What hasn’t been mentioned (unless I missed it somewhere) is the current height limit in Downtown Hilo of 120′ or twelve stories(Bayshore Towers) and that’s what concerns me about increasing density.
While this particular project isn’t about building a 12 story building, it could be and that is partially what people are afraid of or, in my opinion, should be afraid of. I believe that a 12 story condominium with or even without the proposed density increase would be a blight to Downtown Hilo and if the height limit isn’t changed at the same time as the density increase, we could see some really fast developments jumping in and rising up above our historic town, blocking our views of the mountains and the ocean and creating a truly urban environment, which the majority of people posting here don’t seem to want and fear will happen to our Downtown Hilo.
I feel that design guidelines that include a height limitation are essential and my understanding is that changing zoning and building codes is a long and sometimes difficult process so why go in for a density increase and not include these other components? What Neil originally said about a “housing form based on human proportions” and some of the examples at the link he provides give me hope that we could accomplish that here.
These are my personal feelings and opinions that I’ve reached after 50+ years living in Hilo, the 9 years owning and operating a business in Downtown Hilo and the 4+ years working for the Downtown Improvement Association (in the 1990s and currently). My request is that we all consider compromise and consider what we will gain from increased residential units in the area as well as what we will lose.
Alice
It’s not that beauty is what’s important to just me, it’s based on studies like this that show it matters most to people in general.
When you’re talking about a public domain, then yes, I would think what the majority thinks is beautiful matters more than the 20 people that bought condos in the building. Otherwise, defining the market as the people who will be tenants in the building, is not that dissimilar to defining the market as the one person who builds a mansion on sacred land in the mountains overlooking the city, that everyone in the city has to look at and past cultures feel disrespected by.
In defining market though, the market is really the people who spend the most time downtown.
I really don’t think we’re all that far off in terms of differences of opinions. I think we all agree that we’d all mostly like to see something mixed-use built there that makes Hilo look better than it does. What we may be differing on if whether the examples provided are good enough, and it seems many people have higher standards. Good for them/us!
As you have experience in studying neighborhood could you please come up with a description of this character or look of Hilo that wants to be preserved so that we have a common definition we can use for discussion.
It all comes down to beauty for you but isn’t this subjective. Wouldn’t the market be the best judge of what they want or don’t want rather then majority rules.
Being someone who grew up in Hilo and spent the last 20 years studying what makes healthy, long-lasting, loved neighborhoods, I can say that just because people want to preserve the character of the neighborhood doesn’t mean it can’t adapt economically to the next generation of jobs, local businesses, and downtown residents.
The most desired neighborhoods in the country, and the world in fact, look exactly the same now as it did 100+ years ago. That’s not to say it needs to be a museum, but it does point to the intrinsic value of historic neighborhoods. At the same time, these neighborhoods house the most innovative new local businesses, and successful entrepreneurs who bring jobs.
It all comes down to beauty. There are lots of new buildings in Hilo, and I can’t say many of them are very attractive, most of which seem to be surrounded by parking. However, if one is to build on the empty lots in the historic neighborhood of downtown Hilo, and I believe that someone should (especially if replacing a gas station), it in many ways needs to be perceived the by the majority as being more beautiful than what’s been historically there. I honestly can’t say that by the drawings presented, but again, these are just preliminary drawings. We should expect something more beautiful.
This site will soon be adding the ability to add images to comments, so hopefully we can have a more photo-oriented discussion about what kinds of buildings would inspire people. Get your photos ready!
Is this project viewed as “Mainland-style high-density projects”? I can see that this is more about the look of Hilo rather then the economics of Hilo. I can’t imagine that someone whose business is in Hilo would choose the look of the building first. I mean, is their an overall look or design of Hilo that someone would just recognize. Is it the hodgepodge of design and material that we need to preserve. Will this authenticity eventually provide the success that will spur owners to invest money in their properties. Are the people that our concerned about the look ,are they just using Downtown Hilo for recreation or are they trying to run a business down there. If you are running a business and the look is more important then the economics then please state your reasoning because we really need to hear your opinion on this.
In my opinion Downtown Hilo doesn’t change just because the buildings change (of which we will one day have to admit that most of these buildlings can’t keep going on forever). What makes Hilo is the people that live here.
Also, what happens if a tsunami comes through and the first row of buildlings gets damaged beyond repair. These people can still re-build but based just on the building code they will look nothing like what they are today. Most notably, you would have to build above the tsunami flood elevation line which for some would be above 15 ft. Even if these people renovate more then 50% of their value they need to build to code which triggers this buildling above the elevation line. Does this just ruin Hilo for you or is their more to this town then just these old buildlings.
I think more livability in Downtown Hilo could be good, but I don’t want to see Mainland-style high-density projects coming in. I want it to still feel and look like Hilo, Hawai`i, not like Anyplace, Generic. I don’t think urban revitalization is appropriate for us. One of the BEST things about Hilo is that it does NOT feel urban.
It is good that you mention restoring because if that is what revitalization is to you then we should restore the downtown area to what it used to be, a place where people worked and lived. I might be wrong but wasn’t Hilo a much more lively place and better for business when people were living in the area.
Design is a whole other discussion of which needs to happen but if you don’t even want residential to occur then this is a much more important topic.
You are correct we will have to disagree on this. I’m not sure if you are a long time resident (meaning >20 years) or not but I remember people talking about “revitalizing” Kailua-Kona. I was a young boy when the”revitalizing” of Honolulu was taking place. The results in both those areas is that Kailua-Kona is more like SoCal and is a mess and the locals stay out of Honolulu. To me revitalizing Hilo means restoring it not tearing it down. A mainland contractor built a house in our neighborhood. Before he started building it he made a point of telling some of us that his structure would blend in with the existing homes and enhance or compliment the area. The result was a home that is twice as tall and not at all complimentary to the surrounding neighborhood. I guess he thought he was revitalizing our community as well.
On a side note, why is traffic bad?
Traffic means that downtown is full that their is a demand for the amenities in the area. This is a good problem to have as it also provides opportunity to those that can figure out solutions to the problem.
Maybe one solution that will come out of it and the market will determine is that people will begin looking for an alternative means of transport. Providing residential in an area with a lot of amenties allows people to walk more, to bike more. Maybe there is a demand for this.
We will have to disagree because I do hear of people being afraid when it comes to proposals like this. The fear is that people don’t want to see change.
The fact is change will come to Downtown Hilo, whether it is from buildings decaying or even a tsunami hitting again. Are we going to have policies in place that will allow the area to revitalize is the question that needs to be answered. Right now we don’t. If I own a business in the downtown area I want traffic, I want people living there. This is what will sustain any success for the area and will ultimately determine if revitalization will occur.
We all have different views of what we see or what we want. What you see as rustic I see as rusty. The point I thought of Envision 2025 was to have community input with the goal of revitalizing downtown. If “this” is the goal then we need people investing money, taking risks in finding out what the market wants.
It is not a matter of being “afraid” as you put it. In my opinion, and I admit I am not a expert in these matters, cramming people into a complex doubling the density would create not only traffic congestion in a small town but dramatically change the rustic personality of Hilo. There are housing developments going up at Puianako towards Kaumana and ample affordable and “high end” properties all around Hilo. I, personally do not see the justification of building residential complex’s in the middle of Hilo.
I wish people would explain more why they are afraid of an increase in density when we don’t have anyone building residential in the area. We need people living in the area and this is probably the best idea that could tell us if revitalization is possible. I support Mr. Tai for willing to take a risk. If the market doesn’t support this then no one else will build, but if the market does support it then we have a chance at revitalization. Shouldn’t we let the market decide?
This would cause a traffic nighmare.
This may be well meant, but for me, this represents another begining of the end of “Old Town”. The reason I and others love the downtown area is that it is just that, “Old Town”. It is Hawai’i of another cherished era that can be too easily gobbled up by modern life. The architecture of this proposed project looks like any other being built in Portland, Seattle, or points east. What distinguishes this visually to the general public as fitting in to Hilo? Kona maybe. Hilo, not!
I like this idea but with reservations. I too would worry about doubling the density. The parking, as has been addressed by previous comments, could be a big problem. There is basically not much on-street parking in that corner, so parking for the residents and customers of the first floor businesses would have to be in back. Instead of this corner, how about taking over the old Hilo Hotel location and doing something similar there, still keeping the “old-town Hilo’ flavor?
A basically good idea. Parking and traffic flow need to be addressed. Doubling the density may be too much. Need to see more detailed plans.
This looks like a good idea for downtown; bringing back living space through residency will help revitalize the area. An upscale new residential/commercial development will hopefully encourage more of the same and some of the run-down spots might be encouraged to brighten-up. Additionally, I imagine with more folks living downtown, there will be more voices advocating for further improvements to the district.
I am wary, however, of doubling the density as you propose for this project. Your proposal does not, for instance, describe what provisions you will make to accommodate parking for your residents or those wishing to shop at your retail outlets. Adding more traffic to downtown is problematic. While I would hope folks living in your development would walk or bike to local businesses, it is unreasonable to think they would not also have cars, trucks, whatever, too.
Could we hear more about your density proposal and parking provisions? Mahalo!
I would love to see a housing form based on human proportions, such as these examples from an urban design firm based in a tropical climate that specializes in downtown urban revitalization: http://doverkohl.com/portfoliolist.aspx?type=2